No matter where you stand on the issue of gay marriage, there are some boundaries of human decency that should never be crossed.
Never.
Even in the name of free speech, some boundaries should never be crossed. Pastor Terry Jones crossed that line in burning the Koran and making a global media spectacle. Pastor Wiley Drake crossed that line in suggesting that he was praying for the death of President Obama. And then, of course, there are the folks of Westboro Baptist Church.
But this…?!#@
Wow, this takes the prize for the most idiotic, insane, stupid, asinine, cruel, ungodly, foul, inexcusable, heinous, and disgusting comments by any person – let alone someone that calls himself a pastor and shepherd.
The person in question is Charles L. Worley – senior pastor of Providence Road Baptist Church in North Carolina.
The conversations about gay marriage – particularly in our current social, political, and social climate – are sensitive and intense but it’s these cruel and insane comments that prevent a more civil conversation to take place because that’s what is necessary.
During these days when sides, groups, folks, and parties, think they have the monopoly on intelligence, biblical accuracy (or inerrancy), compassion, love, answers, or whatever else we want to say, what we need is a commitment to civility and human decency.
Some of you may wonder why I’m even dedicating a post to this matter or to this person and thus, drawing more attention and press. Some of you may even be inclined to rebuke me for publicly calling out another “leader” but when CNN’s Anderson Cooper is dedicating parts of his show to this fool and fiasco, we need many Christians and Christian leaders to respond with clear rebuke and call for Worley’s repentance.
And so with that in mind, while I certainly do not know Pastor Charles L. Worley – I feel that it’s necessary for me to publicly state that in no shape, form, or another does he speak for Christians, the church, Christian leaders, or Christian pastors – including those who have convictions and views that marriage is between one man and one woman.
I condemn his words and his behavior. I denounce this kind of hatred, venom, and anger.
If hate is your motivation, you are far from God and you need to repent. May our love for doctrine and theology never supersede our practice of the love and grace of Christ and neighbor.
And he certainly does not speak for Jesus.
Oh, how this does not reflect the love and tenderness of Christ:
“Build a great, big, large fence — 150 or 100 mile long — put all the lesbians in there,” Worley suggests in the clip, reportedly filmed on May 13.
He continues: “Do the same thing for the queers and the homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can’t get out…and you know what, in a few years, they’ll die out…do you know why? They can’t reproduce!”
He speaks for himself and possibly, some or most of his congregation but since it is a church and part of the larger Christian community, I join others in calling him to repentance and ask his elder board to hold him accountable for these ungodly and heinous words.
I believe in the Gospel of Christ
Pastor Worley: I, too, believe in Jesus and I believe in the Gospel. I believe in a Gospel that not only saves but serves; a Gospel that restores all things; a Gospel that ushers in the Kingdom of God. I believe in a Gospel that is not just merely propositional truth but that which has been incarnationally personified in Jesus. I believe in a Gospel that is not just for us – but good news for all of us – especially the least, marginalized, forgotten, forsaken, and alone.
I believe in this Gospel and I believe this Gospel is bigger, deeper, wider, and more vast that we can ever imagine. I believe this because this Gospel has room for you and me. Even you and me.
I preach this Gospel. I live for this Gospel. Thank you, Jesus.
I. We. Are. Sorry.
And lastly, I want to profusely apologize to the LGBT community and all that continue to be hurt by such horrible words and actions.
I am sorry.
We are sorry.
So damn sorry.
EUGENE CHO 
Speechless … thanks for your thoughts Eugene. I’m with you …
As A Evangelist and preach the word of God as well have a show on the local cable TV here in NC, I to believe that its wrong for two man and two woman to marry each other as the word of God says its wrong and if you read it,you your self will see also what God has to say. Now as for Pastor Worley he was right when he said that God says it is wrong, BUT as for the fence comment, that was wrong for him to say that. We must pray for these folks and not put them into a fence to kill them off, we must not judge theses people that’s God’s JOB and he will judge us all one day who ever and what ever kind of life style we live. May God be with all of you folks on this page and I will be praying for all, May God Bless.
Verne, please learn some spelling and grammar before you write such a comment. It makes you look even more dumb.
Is that your real name, or are you having a laff? And have you considered remedial English lesons?
lessons* you should join him lmbo jk jk but that was funny.. gotta admit
Pastor Worley is regressing instead of evolving.
The word that your god uses most, “love”, is something you are not able to give to people whose only sin is that of having sexual behaviours different from yours.
Hope you’ll find out some day that your children are homosexual/lesbian (if you have any), then we’ll see if you wanna put them in that fence too.
You are an ignorant, one of those who talk without knowing: in a few words one of those who shouldn’t talk at all.
You seem to come out of the 17th century.
Inquisition is over dude.
Ciao from Italy.
Thank you, Eugene.
-a gay Christian
I am sorry, too
Eugene, this makes me a little nauseous. I continue to be amazed that people exist who have a platform to spout off such cruel words.
I also must express appreciation to you. I have been a bit disappointed by the overwhelming silence that is present within the ECC among leaders. I have wondered, with tears, why, by every appearance, we seem to shy away from the dialogue and why there is no engagement regarding the LGBT Community. So, thank you for devoting a post to the topic (even if it was to expose foolishness). It would be great to hear more from you.
Hmm.
I’ll share more later.
Thanks Eugene. I will keep my eyes open for more.
It’s rhetoric spewed from guys like this that will, on the last and greatest day, evoke that dreaded pronouncement “….away from me, I never knew you.”
I just watched this. I’m disgusted on many levels. He is not a representation of what I believe or the God that I know. I would share this, but I have homosexual friends on my FB and I want to protect them from this kind of abuse. They are my frends.
you think they haven’t heard it before? Share your disgust and show yourself as an ally.
Of course, it is part and parcel for the media to take examples of extremist, narrowminded people like the man here, and present the as an example of all Christendom. Then the Church has to take an eternal apologetic, defensive stance so as not to be associated with this guy. But you’re right Eugene, this guy should be called out for his homophobia.
I agree Will , I asked pastor Chou why he did not comment on Mr Savages rant in the Seattle area where he lives . It was to public school kids , he mocked believers , he mocked the Bible , these future journalist clapped , the Christian kids walked out silently then Savage mocked them for doing it . This from a guy speaking on bullying . I am concerned about Christians promoting this kind of thinking , but when tax dollars are used to promote hate and sexual acceptance of different values and beliefs we all should take notice . If this pastor stated the things in a public school we would all be upset , Mr Savage does and only Christians are upset apparently . And some liberal ones actually think its ok . The church sometimes seems to have a great desire to eat our own .
two completely different subjects. 2/10, must try harder.
This makes me weep. The most important commandment given by the Jesus was to LOVE the Lord our God and to LOVE our neighbor. Period, no questions asked. Whether you are black or white, male or female, gay or transgender, we are called to love. I pray that anyone in the LGBT community who hears this disgraceful pastor, that the Lord can somehow sheild their hearts from such hateful, awful words.
This is unbelievable! Thank you for speaking out against this hateful and hurtful rhetoric. May the love of Jesus confound us all, even when his ministers are such poor representatives.
So damn sorry! Thanks, once again, for your courage and voice.
An abomination of the greatest magnitude. Mr. Worely (I don’t consider you a pastor, in fact, you don’t deserve the title Mr) you do not speak for me or for my church or for most of the Christian’s I know, and you certainly do not speak for Jesus as Eugene has said.
I have come across several of these types of sermons since Obama made his statement, but this is the worst thing I’ve ever heard. A recent Barna poll asked a large group on non-believers what they thought of when they heard the word Christian. 90% said, “those are the people who hate gays.”
I don’t hate anyone and it saddens me that people connect me and other believers with that notion. This foul idiot is part of the reason. I would beseech Christians everywhere to be careful of how you express your beliefs on issues like this. Everything should be done in love and point the way to Jesus love.
Eugene, You are spreading hate and discontent. This is gossip. Stop it.
Disagree, Mark – this is the furthest thing from gossip. How can you say Eugene is spreading hate after watching that video? It’s incredible that you would ask him to stop speaking love to a community that generally only feels hate from Christians.
Eugene, thank you for this message that gives me – one of the “queers” that Mr. Worley wants to see die off – hope that there is still a place in the church for me. Don’t stop.
I also heartily disagree Mark.
First, Pastor Worley is spreading hatred and discontent towards LGBT people and others are using him to spread hatred and discontent towards Christians.
Eugene’s post is an attempt to discourage this on both sides.
Second, Pastor Eugene’s post hardly qualifies as gossip. Telling other people what someone heard Mr. Worley say in private is one thing, but Mr. Worley spoke his views publicly from the pulpit and then posted them on YouTube for people to see.
Part of gossip or slander is spreading what you’ve heard in confidence, or what you’ve heard about something/someone from another person. Neither is the case here.
Mark:
Wow. I don’t get it. I really don’t…
Mark. STHUP. Take your hate elsewhere. People like this pastor makes me sick. You make me sick. ALL hate should be brought out to the light and condemned. D*amn right I am discontent! No one should be content with someone suggesting the idea of locking up people and letting them die. So call Christians disgust me.
Sorry, don’t mean to be rude. But are you sure YOUR words weren’t hateful? Hate is a strong word.. I think we should make sure we use it wisely.. A strong opinion wrongly said, or just a negative comment isn’t necessarily hate. It sounds more like hate when you strictly start attacking someone’s persona; I think that sounds more like what you did just then.. Just make sure that the moment you’re feeling judged, you’re not also judging the next person.. God bless
Worley is hateful. And practicing homosexuality is still a sin. Two wrongs…etc.
Who are you to condemn? He does have the right to say evil things, and people always will. We are not the ones to condemn sin. No one thinks that he speaks for everyone, so that point doesn’t need to be made. You’re just giving him more attention.
The Bible (specifically in several of Paul’s writings) clearly calls upon believers to rebuke other believers who are sinning. We have completely misrepresented what Scripture says when we say that we are not to judge or condemn actions by other Christians.
Ok then.
Nathan, your words are ludicrous. There is NO right to say evil things. WE MUST SPEAK OUT against any hateful speech or action. Even if he doesn’t speak for everyone, he speaks for enough. Evil like his must be brought out into the light and condemned BEFORE it DOES spread. SILENCE in the face of such hate is ACCEPTING OF THE HATE!!!
We are not to judge or condem another persons heart, as we have no way to see its true character, that is the job of our Lord Jesus Christ. We are, however, to speak out upon destructive BEHAVIOR that we observe other Christians engaging in. Thank you, Eugene, for doing just this.
@Mark and Nathan…you should read the “I believe in the Gospel of Christ” paragraph again.
You know what, he can say whatever he wants in America, but I hate he does it in the name of Jesus. Of course, the other thing that really pisses me off is that the media gives all of their time and attention to crap like this, instead of the more sane Christians who CLEARLY outnumber foolish thinking. lotta criticism on politicians for being divisive…… Seriously, the Media are the biggest offenders.
I get what you’re saying and I hear what you’re saying about the media.
It’s unbalanced…meaning that they rarely cover “good news” or “good deeds”
but…
How can they not cover this?
Its not the coverage Eugene , its the imbalance and perspective . catholics are pro life , do not want to pay for abortions from a minsitrie that they believe represents Gods hands . Understandable , even if you disagree . How does media see it , war against women .
Not a stretch to see the biggest cause of poverty in this culture is kids being separated from thei moms and dads . Living in single homes or kids living with non biological parents . promoting marriage that stops kids from ever having a mom and dad is something most can see might be of concern , is that debated from a child stand point or from anti gay marriage stand point . If you really do not see the liberal secualr bias you may be seeing things from that lens . Whcih you may be . I don’t know you . But from a Christian point , many do not speak to such issues like marriage or abortion because the conversation from the left appears more like this example you gave of Christian . People take that and use it as an example why religion in general breeds hatred. I don’t think you agree with that , I just wish you balanced out your blogs lifting the church up , even us who believe God wants us to love one another , and help those moms and dads in their marriages , not mock them as biggots . I ahppen to think a gay kid , for waht ever reason same sex attraction occurs is better off with the love and bonding of both genders . To suggest laws that cahnge that do not promote what is best for kids , including gay kids , husbands or wives . why not get that view out once in a while and perhaps your view won’t appear so slanted .
How about the fact that the “more sane Christians” are not actually making a splash in their efforts?? How about sane Christians picking against Westboro?? Or sane Christians showing up when that pastor was going to burn the Koran and stopping him?? Sane Christian stay silent as the “crazy” Christians go rampant spreading their ignorance and hate!! Who else are you going to blame?? Look to yourself for your own failings.
And it is ludicrous to say people can say whatever they want in America. FREEDOM is NOT the freedom to spread hate!! Freedom is not the freedom to spew venom & messages of violence. Freedom is NOT FREE!! The price we have to pay is vigilance!!! Vigilance of those that are “sane” to NOT tolerate such people as this one. Outnumbering has NOTHING to do with it if you STAY QUIET!! Silence is the SAME as accepting.
CALL the church. If you are in NC march there! Picket!! Every Christian needs to know their actions, their vote, their silence can feed hatred such as this.
“”FREEDOM is NOT the freedom to spread hate!!””
Well of course! – we’ll just assume that freedom is whatever YOU deem it to be. And the only real freedom should stem from whatever YOU approve.
You see, the concept “Freedom of Speech” was initiated to protect Unpopular Speech. “Popular Speech”, by its very definition, does not need protection.
But, actually, freedom Does include the right and ability to say whatever you want to say. However Freedom ALSO speaks to the right to REJECT what other free Nut Jobs are spewing.
I don’t want to force people to stop saying what they think… I want to have ALL ideas discussed in a Free (there’s that word again) and open forum to expose the folly of their (his) philosophy – or as to why they do, or do not work.
If a product isn’t popular, it doesn’t sell very well, and eventually is removed from the marketplace. If a philosophy isn’t very popular, it also doesn’t maintain a very long shelf life.
Discussing ideas based on their MERIT is what educates and grows… not forcibly shutting up people with whom you disagree.
The point is that it’s kinda not wise on Eugene’s part to have posted this either tho and I say it with all kindness.. But just for the mere fact that the LGBT Community already has a bad stereotypical view about us Christians.. It is not wise to kinda spread this kind of stuff even further. Like what’s the point? Lord have mercy on our souls..
i have yet to see these christians who “clearly outnumber” people like this guy. because the ones i know pretend to be good people by saying veiled homophobic things and calling it love. that doesn’t count. you are a good person when you stop worrying about what gay people are doing and whether or not it’s wrong– and also when you stop thinking that anyone cares whether or not you approve of it.
I have also sent him a personal letter asking him to repent – because it is biblical to do so, IMO. I encourage others to do the same.
Thank you, Sue.
Today, I prayed for his safety. I really do pray nothing happens to him or his family.
Did you notice also that he sprinkled this little speech with “praise God’s?” No God is not praised or glorified in this man’s words.
Thanks for standing up and presenting a clear message: whatever our individual opinions and convictions; hatred and cruelty don’t convey good news to a hurting world.
As a Pastor myself, I am sickened by the vileness of his words. Words that betray his heart attitude toward other human beings. It is painful to even listen to him. Where is the love of Christ in any of this?
The saddest part to me is that this man wants to put all “lesbians and queers” behind an electric fence and let them die… without sharing Jesus with them. Regardless of who someone is, gay or straight, as Christians our number one priority should be to spread the hope and love of our Savior. I am heartbroken.
I SINCERELY HOPE THAT THIS MINISTER’S GRANDCHILDREN ARE ALL GAY….PERHAPS THEN HE WILL UNDERSTAND THAT IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. WE ARE ALL PEOPLE. THIS IS NOT WHAT JESUS WOULD DO.
There’s only one thing worse than a bad comment…
a bad comment in ALL CAPS.
C’mon? What’s the deal with this comment?
this is another unfortunate example that gives people the perceived justification to say christians spout hatred towards others. we must be followers of Christ where we can show radiant love w/o compromising our faith.
amen! agree
For several years I stopped going to church and strongly doubted the faith that I grew up with. It’s pastors like Worley that still make me hesitant to openly claim “Christianity”. The world too often identifies Christianity with horrible examples such as this. It infuriates me and breaks my heart at the same time. This is not the God that I believe in, the love, gospel or faith that I still cling to even after struggling through a period of tremendous doubt. If this was true Christianity, I wouldn’t want anything to do with it or its god. Thanks for speaking out Eugene.
Very positive response to a hateful man, Eugene. Thank you for speaking out. Peace to you brother.
Thank you.
karen: your url link gets forwarded to novabooks which shows links to quasi adult stuff. just in case you didn’t know.
Well that’s freaky weird.
Thank you for this great response– I am absolutely infuriated by the words and attitudes expressed by Pastor Worley, but so encouraged by your response here. I hope many who hear about this horrible incident also find themselves reading about Christians denouncing these sentiments.
Does anyone know if the larger Christian community has responded to this– or how to go about calling them to do so? The words of this pastor are scary and it’s about time Christians get vocal about how we are represented.. especially by others who claim to be Christians.
The Prophet and Apostles of the LORD warned of the assault on families back in 1995. They condemn SSM as not approved by God, and cautioned that we must be prepared to defend our families from the coming assault on them by the influences of Satan.
HOWEVER, they also cautioned all Saints and believers to remember the cardinal principle that we are ALL sinners, and that we are to love the sinner, but hate the sin. We are not to bully, attack, hurt or harm, those who are drawn to same sex relationships; but we are to love them, to encourage them to refrain from their desires, as we would encourage the fornicator or the adulterer to refrain from his. It is the commission of sin we ought to encourage them to resist, but not punish them for their unsought feelings. Our god is a god of love that desires all his children to return to his presence. He does not want to abandon them. He does not enjoy seeing them suffer, or having to enforce the punishment misbehavior must bring. He has sent is only begotten son to suffer that all of us might repent and turn from our errors. Let us encourage one another, rather than berate one another; for Jesus’ sake.
I have the same word for the 60+% of my fellow North Carolinians who thought they were “protecting” something our Sovereign God has defined when they were voting for an unnecessary amendment that actually usurps His authority over marriage and gives that authority to Ceasar. They don’t undertand that, under the terms of Ceasar’s form of government, minorities are entitled to equal protection and equal rights.
Homosexuality is either a choice, or it’s not. I personally believe it’s a biological compulsion, and not a “choice”. As a Christian, I believe my response to my homosexual brothers and sisters must be the same- either way. I don’t remember the day I “chose” to be straight; I was just wired that way. I can’t presume to walk in the shoes of a gay person, but I would guess they were wired in their own, different way as well. If that’s the way they were created, we need to remember that God does not make mistakes. Sometimes things happen that are hard for mortal humans to understand- but God does not make mistakes. If it’s actually a “choice”, then it might even be a sin. In that case, we need to let people know that God loves them very much as He loves all of us very much. I have my own sins to deal with, as do we all, and that should keep me busy enough trying to get straightened away. God loves me in spite of my shortcomings and bad choices- and if my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters are making a bad “choice” (which I do not believe to be the case) I am in no position to judge or condemn them for it.
I appreciate your concern and outrage, but being a Gay Christian, I would prefer for myself to take this verse to heart:
“But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”
Amen.
It is heart breaking when a leader of the church acts the way that he did ,we as fellow believers need to pray for him . No matter how we may feel about this situation. Pastor Worley does need to repent for his actions on this issue .. As do a lot of us for the words we have been saying here on this post . Jesus said they will know us by our love all to often we are known for hate and hurtful rhetoric .. We are called to Love God and to Love people and that Nothing Else matters, God doesn’t like Sin but He Loves the sinner .
Just my two cents
Scott
Hey everyone, this guy was offering compassion to the lesbians and queers: he was willing to at least feed them before they died off! Now if that’s not a missional spirit I don’t know what is……ugh
If you want to stand up and FIGHT against #CharlesWorley SIGN and RT this petition for #LGBT rights!!!
http://www.change.org/petitions/pastor-charles-l-worley-step-down-as-pastor-of-providence-road-baptist-church-in-north-carolina?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=share_petition&utm_term=autopublish
I think we are over reacting with this, he only say that they can´t reproduce thats all, we take his word literally and get confuse
I do not condone homosexual behavior but I am not the judge – God is. And He gives us free choice on how to live our lives. I don’t recall Jesus ever condemning someone who had sinned. He just peacefully asked them to follow Him and to sin no more. This preacher is one reason many do not attend churches. He is ignorant of Scripture and of the law. Preachers should not talk about who they are going to vote for and should not give their “opinion” on controversial subjects – only what Scripture says. He should be asked to step down from his pulpit “high horse.” I know if I happened to belong to that congregation and he didn’t step down, I would be looking for another church. I would be ashamed to be a member of that congregation. Makes me sad to call myself a Baptist, but I try to keep my eyes on Christ, not man, because we all mess up.
“If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.” 1 John 4:20
If you hate gays, you cannot love God. If you are fooling yourself by saying “hate the sin, love the sinner” when dealing with gays, you are a hypocrite: According to the Bible, we are all sinners, and frankly, my sins are none of your business.
When discussing gays if you always start by saying “I do not condone homosexuality” nobody hears what follows. It is not up to you to condone. And pity your children should one of them be gay.
We are your brothers and sisters, and if you do not support us, if you do not love us, you cannot love God. So wrote John.
If you continue to inflict hurt upon meek gays and lesbians, you are a despicable person and will be judged accordingly.
Excellent article. I, too, think Mr. Worley is some kind of poop gollum. I wonder if he realizes that his PLAN would effectively create two of the largest cities in America? I couldn’t resist writing him an email, although I fear that my language may be a bit too “advanced” for him. You can read it here: http://rubberchickensociety.wordpress.com/2012/05/23/i-love-you-fellers-rcs-responds-to-charles-worley-minister-architect-gay-rights-pioneer/. Keep on rockin’!
Thank you, thank you, thank you
I was a candidate for ministry but my sexual orientation made me “incompatible” with the church. After coming out to my family when i was 29, my mother said that she never heard anything negative said at our church (although officially being declared “incompatible” is not all that positive!) I told her that even if that was true it is not enough because Christians that remain silent allow others to speak for the entire church, the Fred Phelps and Charles Worley’s are the voice and remain the only voice as others remain silent. I became active in an affirming congregation and co-founded a church that affiliated with Disciples of Christ and the United Church of Christ. I ministered for years to GLTB people to let them know that Jesus Loves them (us).
As I have gotten older, I have grown to resent the fact that for me to be part of a church i must travel an hour each way. Better than entering into a conspiracy of silence or even worse have to put on the full armor of God and go stealth and praise God with Evangelical making sure to hide part of myself.
Anyway thanks again your comments give me hope. At 47 years old this is the only Easter that I did not go to church. I long for a community of belivers near me that speaks out…If i do it then i am just another fag pushing the gay agenda. God Bless you!
BRO. CHARLES WORLEY IS AN AWESOME PREACHER AND GREAT MAN OF GOD. THE BIBLE CONDEMNS HOMOSEXUALS TO DEATH. HE WAS JUST TAKIN IT EASY ON EM.
The definition of repent is……………to turn away from. The Bible says homosexuality is sin. This sin has to be confessed with ones mouth and repentance has to take place which again means………………..to turn away from. I as a christain fall short of the glory of God on a daily basis, but I also confess those sins as The Holy Spirit convicts me of my wrong doing. If your a christain and Jesus lives in your heart, you will be convicted of your sin, to keep doing any sin and know its a sin is not pleasing to God. I havent heard the whole message of Pastor Worley, only a portion of it. Thats like taking a verse from the Bible and twisting it around to make ones point look valid. In these times folks love to glorify themselves with the preverbial 15 minutes of fame. We should all do more to glorify Jesus and increase Him and decrease ourselves. Im not going to make any judgement calls on this one cause we only have one judge and He will take care of this in His on time. I know the greatest thing of all is love and I love all as Jesus has commanded. I however, just like Jesus dont like or want anything to do with blantent sin. To all the gay community out there, Jesus does love you, but His word {the Bible} says that your lifestyle is sin, I pray your eyes be opened and the truth is revealed before its to late for you to do anything about it. Sin is sin, there is no degree of sin in Gods eyes, He only sees the sin and He dont like it. Please search your hearts, better still have Jesus search your heart and follow the prompting of the Holy Spirit and repent of your sins. God is waiting and eager to forgive us ALL from any wrong doing or sin in our lives. May God be glorified somehow thru all of this!!!!!!!!!!!
And just for the record……………..What about the sin of homosexuality Eugene?? Any comments on that or do you believe that its ok to live this lifestyle and not be punished by God?? Just wondering????? The core of the matter is homosexuality, so, whats your stand on that……………..sin or not sin………………..Im very interested to see where you stand on that.
Pastor Chou I agree this guy needs to get a life . But it seems our culture is not pure from either side of these issues . I get tired of the church beating up those in the church . Especially in the culture that we have today , living in Seattle you must see this ? i sure do .
So when a Mr Savage comes to our neck of the woods and speaks to HS kids , puts down the Bible and believers in bigoted sterotypes, mocks the kids who silently walked out , approriately in my opinion , how come you did not speak to that issue ? On Sojourners you get congrats for your speaking up to protect gays . One time I would have agreed , gays use to get the worse end of the stick , plus are still bullied in many cases . But they also have some of the most vicious politics , get passes from the secular world because the view of a Savior is arrogant to many who live within their own pride. . Can you imagin that pastor speaking to these HS kids , you would have been on it . I happen to think we should be lifting up the church also , and if you believe evil is still on the prowl in this world perhaps showing some support for Christians may be a good thing . The vast majority of us do Love God , are faithful to our churches and community , These kids clapped Mr Savage hate sppech in a public school .
Mr Savages comments and video . remember kids clapp who are suppose to be learning about bullying from the liberal secualr viewpoint .
“You can tell the Bible guys in the hall they can come back now because I’m done beating up the Bible. It’s funny to someone who is on the receiving end of beatings that are justified by the Bible how pansy-ass people react when you push back.
People often point out that they can’t help it, they can’t help with the anti-gay bullying, because it says right there in Leviticus, it says right there in Timothy, it says right there in Romans that being gay is wrong. We can learn to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about gay people. The same way we have learned to ignore the bullshit in the Bible about shellfish, about slavery, about dinner, about farming, about menstruation, about virginity, about masturbation. We ignore bullshit in the Bible about all sorts of things. The Bible is a radically pro-slavery document.”
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/30/columnist-dan-savage-stands-by-comments-on-bullst-in-the-bible/?iref=allsearch
Sodom and Gomorrah enough said. God destroyed all the queers.
if the good pastor is going to lock up and kill the Gays and Lesbians, shouldn’t he stone to death all the adulter’ers and divorce’s first. They are more numerous in this country with a majority of people having unmarried sex, even if it is a short affair it is condemed more in the bible than gay & lesbian sex. So stone them first, they are a bigger target.
The remarks by both Charles Worley and Eugene Cho create more heat than light. Let’s tone down the rhetoric, brothers.
It very interesting that some out there is scared of a small cage some where, Yet the God all seem to know in parts did not only construct a cage but HELL WITH FIRE AND BRIME STONE. As for my fellow pastor, the construction company should be bigger before \God there’s no small and big sin, look at the liars, corrupt official. I would rather that we concentrate on showing them all the biblical truth, for any have not looked at some of scriptures. i sat with one young born again who did not know some of scriptures regarding gay life and immediately he changed his orientation. With rage it will fire to fire and with love it will pouring water on the fire.
As for the rest of the world, just seek the truth, some of you have even gone to far in you abuses. May be you’ve not heard of the monkey story of never argue with a fool as people may not notice the difference. If you feel you’re better off, then why do you fight back with excessive rage.
The same bible some of you are reading have prophets who prophesied doom, some of them were killed by kings, who know if this man has been brought about the same God of the pending doom owing to the levels of moral decay.
The preacher and respondents are response in making this world a better place to abide in. Seek the truth for the truth will set you free.
Remember that other than going for the herd of Rev. Charles plan better words if not better fists for the one who put Hello if you don’t do his will. Verbal artillery you can afford now but on the judgement day, the will be computers to verbally fight back. let sin be sin small big or otherwise, We’ve all sinned and fallen short of the Glory. Check your self.
Thanks. Ben
thank you pastor worley for defending freedom of speech
Sodom and Gomorrah was NOT about homosexuality but rather about the sin of inhospitality!
Being Queer is NOT a sin.
Because of narrow-minded, homophobic, and hateful Christians, i have left the faith.
THANK YOU, Eugene, for speaking out about this man! Words like his only serve to perpetuate hate, keeping people in the closet, hating themselves and believing G-D hates them as well. Also, it leads queers to want to commit suicide.
Pastor Cho, I am a pastor too from Nigeria and I take strong exception to your bashing of your brother, Pastor Worley whom I suddenly fall in love with this evening after reading his suggestion on CNN online.
When people prove stubborn sinners what do you expect? Jesus called the pharisees brood of vipers. Have you forgotten, “Repent or perish”, something our Lord was fond of? My JESUS is the Lion and the Lamb. It is people like you that make it difficult for sinners to repent by petting and seducing them by hiding the harsh side of the gospel. I believe the Pastor is never inciting violence but speaking allegorically. But Pastors like you are taking advantage of that to flatter grievous sinners and flatter them with sweet words to make it look you the ones that love them, at least seeing how you went as far as apologising to them over words profound words of wisdom GOD Almighty has given to his Prophet?!
And to make matters worst, you refused to state your stand on homosexuality-sodomy. Please brother read Gen. 19 again see things for yourself again. You American Christians of now adays are shaming us worldwide, making more difficult for us to defend the Faith in this part of the world.
Homosexuality is nothing but ABOMINATION in the sight of the LORD. THEY SHOULD REPENT OR PERISH!
@Kilyobas,
Seldom do I understand when a person speaks so plainly as Dr. Worley when he say’s “I know what to do with them”, and then see that someone feels he is speaking allegorically. No sir he is not, he is speaking plainly and directly. The question put forth in Pastor Cho’s blog was never about the biblical perspective of homosexuality(neither will I tell youwhere I stand). It is about the de-humaization of a segment of God’s creation with words. It is something that we all are guilty of at one time or another. The only person who never was guilty of such things was Jesus. There are a good many things my friend that are an abomination before the LORD, yet we do not address them in the manner we do when it comes to homosexualtiy.
I would ask, do you (meaning plural, not specific) vilify the man who abuses his wife and children? Do you vilify the man who has multiple affairs and abandons his children? Do you vilify the man who treats his wife as a slave or servant and not an equal? Do you vilifiy the wife who abandons her children for the sake of her own pleasure? Do you desire to put behind electric fences all those who do such things? Added to that sir, do you wish to take the fornicator, the drunkard, the adulterer and lock them up and starve them out as well? What about the human being who passes by the wretched of society and the homeless and the starving and turns their nose up as if these people do not exist? This was what Israel was guilty of before God. That was why they were sent into exile! Taking scripture as a whole and not parts to fit our sound bite, we actually see that Sodom was guilty of the following: “Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me.” [Eze. 16:49-50] So in reference to Gen 19, the debauchery had to do as much with the fact that Lot was going to throw his daughter to the men! Why is this not addressed sir? Why is only homosexuality taken from Gen 19? Ezekiel clarified what their entire issue was and he said not “homosexuality” but debauchery. Again, Lot, a “man of God” was willing to throw his DAUGHTER to these men! Why do we not wish to put his type behind electric fences?
Any time we de-humanize God’s creation, we fail in our fundemental task of bringing the Kingdom of God to bear against the principalitites and powers that run this world. Dr. Worley wants to round up the “Lesbians and Queers and homosexuals” and starve them to death. De-humanizing people that Jesus Christ died for. I see NOTHING of Jesus is that statement what so ever.
With respect sir, as far as the “american christian” goes, as with St. Paul, I am a citizen of heaven and follower of Christ. I just happen to live in America. I care very little if I “shame” you or anyone else, as it is not before you I must stand and give an account.
Dear Pastor Kilyobas,
I am Chinese so I know about harshness and poverty and reality. But read the Gospels again and again, you may see that although Jesus spoke harsh phrases, He most likely spoke them in Love.
He also could speak that way b/c He is GOD. We are not. The Gospel is about peace and restoration and rebirth.
Although the Old Covenant of Law may seem to work better in Africa, it is obsolete. Moses wrote those letters thousands of years ago. It is clear you are a devoted follower of GOD, but you still don’t understand Jesus’ Gospel of Peace and being a minister of reconciliation.
Jesus Christ didn’t come to kill anyone, but He died instead. Why did Jesus Christ come? He changed a lot of things. Yes, GOD did say through Moses that homosexuality was that, but then Jesus came and said He loves everybody. In Genesis 18, did you read that Abraham pleaded for Sodom and it doesn’t outright say it, but this pleased GOD, otherwise why was this recorded?
I invite you to debate with me, to sharpen me as iron sharpens iron. The Bible says homosexuality, it is a sin. That is clear. But when you allow someone to read that for themselves, and the Holy Spirit to work; that is a different feeling than another screaming ‘Sinner!’ 🙂
Peace,
Jim
Everyone was created for a purpose. Evidently you have not yet found your purpose in life.
My best friend has a 3-year-old son who has always told her mother that she “is a girl” and her name is “Mary.” She cries being referred to as a boy. After preschool one day she came home and told my friend that “something went wrong when I was in your tummy, I was supposed to be a girl but something happened and there was a mistake.” This precious child knows who she is inside, but because other people tell her she is not OK, she believes something is wrong with her as God made her. I cannot believe that. I am watching this child (and my best friend) suffer.
I am a mother myself, and our children are of course close friends. I love them both dearly. I have 2 cousins who are gay/ lesbian, and Christian. I am a converted Jew with Austrian ancestry who were tortured and died in the Holocaust.
I do not believe the Bible or Christianity/ Jesus preach messages of hate. God is Love.
Thank you, Pastor Cho.
1) A lesbian security guard told me she loves Jesus, went to healing conferences, and in tears told me but she just loves her girlfriend so much. Obviously a human being, obviously not a monster at all. A person Jesus would have looked on with love and compassion.
2) I have cousins that are gay and lesbian.
3) I have been pegged most of my young, Asian life as gay. Now I say screw it because homo means human.
4) The Bible only has two verses on homosexuality as mentioned on Anderson Cooper. No condemnation of homosexuality. The Word simply says a) homosexuals will be hated. b) practicing homosexuals will not inherit the Kingdom. Inheriting the Kingdom does not equal salvation. Everyone saved will live, but only Kingdom people will govern during the 1000 years and after in the New Jerusalem.
5) Lastly, Pastor Worley has just signed his resignation papers with that tirade. I recommend he step down from active ministry.
He does not deserve to preach because he has no empathy for the suffering soul. So in his world, all sinners should be put in a fence, commuters of adultery, over eaters, sex before marriage. If all sins are bad then lets just put everyone in a fence when they don’t follow a bible written forever ago. After Newtown and discovering this pastor, its no wonder people are going psycho with guns. Even a pastor is preaching to kill innocent people. His ignorance will not go far if god is watching.
What I find very interesting here is, those that combine intelligence with Christian faith speak eloquently. Those that tend to be more of the overzealous Christian that doesn’t bother to read and understand the quote/unquote “word of god” I would compare to a dramatic person who lives their life solely for drama. I have lived in the south (yes in NC) all of my life and I can honestly say that there is still the lingering phantom of the “Civil War-Gone With The Wind” days which play out in southern culture. I fear this is what will destroy the fabric of a culture in the southeastern part of the US and it will slowly become a ghost town just as it is in The Rockies. I am now married to my partner and we plan to leave this area because I can no longer tolerate the futile ignorance at my age and want to feel like I am living once again!!
“There are some boundaries of human decency that shouldnt be crossed…” Amen to that Eugene! Thanks for exposing this.
Now… Help me here …concerning boundaries of human decency as it applies to the abortion issue in America.
Where do we draw the line? Is there a line of human decency on that? Is silence ok? As Christians Is it ok to talk about the subject? Is abortion OK?
Help me here…
The Gay and Lesbian community speak with a loud and powerful voice now.
But what about those that can’t speak?
Proverbs 31:8
8 Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves,
Un-born babies can’t speak. Yet they are routinely killed by the thousands.
Does Human Decency apply here? Or am I missing something Eugene?