Eugene Cho

mccain vs obama for president & your nominations for vice-presidents

In light of VP nominations being revealed for both parties in the upcoming days, I’m reposting this entry where many of you shared your expertise votes and speculations who the respective VP’s might be.  Let’s see who was right.  Feel free to put in your late votes in now.  Remember, free coffee is on the line. 

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This is unbelievable.  So much about this year’s presidential election is historical and now that we are left with two candidates in John McCain vs. Barack Obama, I have to admit that I couldn’t have imagined these two people as their respective party’s nominee – even a year ago .  This is unbelievable.

Who would have thought that we would have a black person leading the ticket for a Major Party for the President of the United States?  I didn’t think this would happen in my lifetime. [ny times]  Seriously, did you?

The primaries behind them, the presidential rivals were wasting no time drawing the battle line for a fall fight that will make history with the election of either the oldest first-term president in McCain or the first black leader in Obama…

The campaign is the first in half a century in which neither a sitting president nor a vice president is running for the highest office, and the first since 1960 in which a senator will assume the White House. A fragile economy and an ongoing Iraq war, as well as matters of age and race serve as a backdrop. [full article]

Who would have thought that Obama would be in this situation less than four years into his first term as a U.S. Senator?  The dude is a newbie.  I thought he was at least 4 and likely, 8 years away from running.

Who would have thought that McCain would be running for President in 2008 at the age of 182 and actually be the Republican nominee this election after couple previous attempts?  Umm, not me.  He was #4 on my list of likely Republican candidates when this began.

Who would have thought that Hillary Clinton still wouldn’t concede after last night’s results?  I admire her and she’s made a valiant effort…a historical effort…but it’s time…like yesterday.  I have always had high respect for Hillary but couldn’t come to support her because of Bill.  On another day, I’ll share more.

Clinton, the New York senator and former first lady, stopped short of dropping out of the race even though Obama had reached the requisite delegate count for the Democratic Party’s nomination. Instead of conceding, Clinton said she would spend the next few days determining “how to move forward with the best interests of our country and our party guiding my way.”

And who would have thought that Pastors would play such a pivotal and controversial role in these elections:  Jeremiah Wright, Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Michael Pfleger, and Eugene Cho. 

Pretty unbelievable on so many counts.  Just remember that while the politics is important, it is not the answer:

POLITICS IS NOT THE ANSWER. Rather, it is not THE answer. Politics is a process, structure and medium by which we can do much good as a society rather than much harm but many, I believe, can fall astray in thinking that politics, policies, and politicians can provide the salvation for the nations. It certainly has its purpose and must be used accordingly and wisely.

This blog’s unofficial caucus several month ago were accurate on both the Democratic and Republican nominees.  Without getting into who you’re voting for in five months, here are a few questions:

1  Any thoughts about the results of the primaries and how we got here?  The historicity of these elections?

Vice-Presidents.  Who are your predictions for the VP running mate for McCain and Obama?  Anyone that gets both correctly gets a cup of coffee on me at the Q.

Update:  Obama picks Biden; McCain selects ?

Filed under: politics, , , ,

57 Responses

  1. Michael says:

    Don’t know where the Q is, but Edwards and Huckabee.

  2. emjay says:

    here’s a great piece on why mccain should choose alaska governor sarah palin:

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/06/the_vp_case_for_gov_sarah_pali.html

    i’m convinced.

  3. ubuntucat says:

    McCain is 182? I thought he was old, but I didn’t realize he was that old!

  4. John Scott says:

    McCain needs a conservative from the south so he’ll pick Huckabee. I think Obama will pick Jim Webb, but I’d like to see him pick Mike Bloomberg.

    This is truly going to be a generational war for president: even with McCain looking good for 182, there’s still a lot of ‘begats’ between him & Obama.

  5. “Who would have thought that Obama would be in this situation less than four years into his first term as a U.S. Senator? The dude is a newbie. I thought he was at least 4 and likely, 8 years away from running.”

    And don’t forget he spent the majority of his four years in the Senate out campaigning to be President. So can we really consider his “experience” in the Senate?

    My picks…McCain goes with Jindal or Lieberman
    Obama goes with Clinton or Richardson

  6. gar says:

    McCain: Huckabee
    Obama: Richardson or Edwards

  7. Tyler says:

    i think obama goes with jim webb from virginia.

  8. Byron says:

    Just a guess, but Obama’s smartest choice might be Bill Richardson. Richardson has the experience that Obama desperately lacks.

    McCain’s a tough nut to crack. If he goes Lieberman, he loses the election, because the base will desert him in droves. Jindal’s a bit of a newbie himself, though he’ll be president one day. Charlie Crist helps him win Florida. Mitt Romney is ready to be president if the need arises. Condoleezza Rice is the dream candidate, but won’t take it. Sarah Palin would be exceptional, but Alaska? Huck was my guy, but I don’t see it happening. Tom Ridge would drive away social conservatives like me, but might secure him a PA win, given his popularity there. So…I’m guessing Jindal, but who really has any clue?

  9. Chris Brooks says:

    If Obama has sound counsel, he will avoid Billary at all costs. He should choose a war vet to ensure that the “military questions” that some voters will inevitably have will be silenced. Maybe a retired General…

  10. johnsonlab says:

    interesting article and comments for me as an European …

  11. elderj says:

    interesting to have your non-endorsement endorsement of Obama

  12. eugenecho says:

    @elderj: i’m voting for walter mondale or dan quayle. and if i was honest, i still think obama is overrated.

  13. justin says:

    mccain/jindal
    obama/edwards

  14. Dan Hauge says:

    I admit I was surprised that Obama himself rose so fast, when just as recently as 2006 people were saying ‘maybe in 8 years or so’ about him. But I also am not surprised at all, I must say, to see a major black candidate within my lifetime. That may be a result of naive insensitivity on my part to the levels of racism in our society, I’m not sure. But if you would have asked me 4 years ago if we would see some African-American president in my lifetime, I would have said ‘sure, very likely’.

    But that doesn’t detract in the slightest from the historical nature of this accomplishment. Congratulations, and long overdue.

    And, while I was disappointed that Clinton did not overtly acknowledge Obama’s victory last night, I definitely acknowledge her talent and tenacity and the historicity of her campaign, just as much as Obama’s.

  15. Tee says:

    I knew Obama would be democratic nominee and I know he will be President. There is something special about this man and what he inspires. I have never been more full of hope.

  16. Danielle says:

    My guesses are:

    Obama: Clinton. The only way to consolidate the party.
    McCain: In a shocker, he goes with Condolezza Rice and in doing so, makes this the most epic election.

  17. elderj says:

    my apologies eugene, though I wasn’t being (and I don’t think you took me to be) offensive. rather I apologize because it is my habit to be sparing in my political commentary, and when I do comment, to avoid sarcasm. I was being sarcastic, and there is something really very wrong with that, as it is a backhanded and dishonest way to express an opinion. My own conscience convicted me; nothing on your part to be sure.

  18. JB says:

    Edwards doesn’t want to run for Veep again. He’d make a dynamite AG, and given the trashing of the “Justice” Dept under BushCo, he’d make a much bigger impact than as Veep.That man is on a mission, and Veep is not the place to carry it out.

    Hillary would be a disastrous choice for Obama. Talk about motivating the extreme right wing to vote for McCain! Otherwise, I think he’ll have a hard time turning them out. And not to malign her or anything, but if she’s veep Obama should get a food taster. Just sayin’.

    Plus, for my own sake, I’d like to see HRC disappear. Hey, I’m old (to most of you) and for every election of the last 28 years there has been a Bush or Clinton VP or Pres. Puhleese. Let’s unconsolidate the incredible power held by our Dynasties (Bush and Clinton) and move on! They’ve had their chance. Can you see Bill running around in the backfield? (Banging head with palm of hand at the thought.)

    And yes, I’m a feminist. But I look at more than whether or not a candidate is my gender. HRC: yuck. Her behavior and attempts to not count our caucus results (they are, according to her “undemocratic” and interfere with her efforts to claim she won the popular vote) have totally turned me off.

  19. JB says:

    And EC, I’d agree that Obama’s resume is not great. HRC’s wasn’t either. But, look at the campaign he ran! Remember that HRC was “inevitable”. She had all the money, all the connections, all the establishment support, all the name recognition, all the cards. It’s not only amazing that she got beat, but that she didn’t close the deal on Feb 5 and blow the rest of the field out of the water. She ran a terrible campaign, spending like crazy despite the war chest of the ages and the fact that she took money from lobbyists.

    BO didn’t take money from lobbyists. They had a strategy to maximize delegates, to over and over again make 4 yards/down. They took on the machine. He ran an incredible campaign: he’s a master strategist, tactician and maintained total discipline. Where was all the internal bickering that marked HRC’s campaign? There was none. It was the only way he could have pulled off what he did. She had more money than him, and ended up in debt. He continued to raise money as the game went on, from small donors, accepting no lobbying money. And ended up with the nomination and with money in the bank. She lost and is millions in debt.

    He’s black, his middle name is Hussein and his last name rhymes with Osama. People think he’s a muslim, and his preacher made some really bad sound bites that were played ad nauseam. And he beat the crown princess of the Democratic party. The guy is remarkable, resume aside.

    So if he runs the country the way he ran the campaign, I’d say I’m comfortable with his qualifications! As a business person, I’m mighty impressed.

  20. eugenecho says:

    @JB: Now, I know how you raised so much money for HDean back in the day!

  21. beattieblog says:

    Great question. My guesses for VP: GOP = Charlie Crist, FL governor who gave Father Time the endorsement he needed to finish off Giuliani in that state. Dems = geez, who knows…cup of coffee on the line…I say Clinton not because I think he should (I’d like to see Edwards – he’d help BO get that white working class vote who won’t go for him – for some strange reason…….). JB made a convincing argument for why Edwards doesn’t want it. Tough to always be a bridesmaid and never the bride…

    On historicity…I was thinking last night about our country and its ‘peaceful transfer of power’ phenomenon that was revolutionary when it started almost 300 years ago. We’ll have this crazy dog-fight of an election season where every bad thing that can be found and dragged into the light about “the kid” and the “182 y.o.” will be. But in November we’ll vote in free elections and then in January, the most powerful country militarily and economically will peacefully transfer power to a new leader. None of us worry about military coups, or violent coercion (anymore). Yes we’ll endure some nastiness but we should be thankful to George Washington and others that it should all be peaceful (pray for Obama’s safety). And of course 44 years after the Civil Rights Act passed when Obama was what – 5 years old? That’s just awesome. Love him or hate him, you have to respect this moment. Even if McCain’s state wouldn’t go with the MLK holiday for so many years😉

  22. beattieblog says:

    BTW, some of our greatest president’s have had little conventional experience. Some guy named Lincoln – he ran a million times but only served one elected term in congress. Personally, I think Obama will either be a great president or a really bad one. I’m hoping for the former.

  23. “So if he runs the country the way he ran the campaign, I’d say I’m comfortable with his qualifications! As a business person, I’m mighty impressed.”

    Running a campaign filled with wide-eyed worshipers who see him as the second coming of Christ (only a bit of an exaggeration) is one thing, running a country where at least half the population is in outright disagreement with him on both the issues and their solutions is another matter. I am sorry, but his two years in the Senate* is woefully insufficient. First off, those with ONLY Senatorial experience rarely win the presidency (JFK and Truman being the only two exceptions in the last 6 decades- and both men served at least one full term in the Senate before campaigning for the highest office in the land). Second, Barrack has yet to craft anything resembling a plausible argument to explain how he will somehow unite the country despite his consistently leftist voting record in the Senate. Indeed, his rhetoric and his votes in the Senate simply don’t match up. His sales pitch for unity would be much more believable coming from a moderate.

    Plus, doesn’t anyone remember that Bush ran on this same ridiculous concept of unity in 2000- “uniter not a divider.” That turned out well didn’t it? This odd hope in unity is misplaced in a nation where the bipolarity of the two party system creates a need for division. This isn’t necessarily unhealthy since these parties have two different visions for America, or at least different ways of achieving the betterment of this nation. However, whether coming from G.W. or B.H. the call for unity is both utopian and delusional.

    I don’t think Obama is lying or intentionally trying to mislead us, I just think that he has an overinflated view of himself and his abilities. Why shouldn’t he? Everything he has touched has turned to gold- or at least appears that way since so few serious questions have been asked of him. The media seem unwilling or incapable of asking him tough questions, his arrogant claims that his wife’s increasingly awkward comments are “off limits” have been received favorably by most of the mainstream press, and his followers treat him more like a prophet/rock star than a politician. Whose ego wouldn’t grow ten fold after such treatment.

    “He’s black,”

    Something that has worked in his favor 95% of the time. Edwards ran on a similar message and placed third in several states. The only thing that broke the back of the Clinton’s hold on the black votes was the simple fact that Barrack is black and that the historic chance to elect a black president has captured the minds and hearts of many Americans black and white- but especially black Americans. And this is understandably so, and I don’t have a problem with it.

    “his middle name is Hussein and his last name rhymes with Osama.”

    About the only people who harp on this are on talk radio. Plus, the kind of people who are concerned about this don’t hold much sway in enlightened Democratic circles. However, this is the kind of thing that could hurt him with Republicans and independents come the general election. However, it hardly is a mark to his credit given the fact he was running in a democratic primary since network news and Air America hardly played this up.

    “People think he’s a muslim,”

    Some people do, most people don’t. The media, and rightfully so, spent a lot of time REFUTING the Obama is Muslim story.

    “and his preacher made some really bad sound bites that were played ad nauseam.”

    You can find the full sermons over on Youtube if you like. Moreover, Rev. Wright was kind enough at the Press Club meeting to put his “sound bites” in context which only served to confirm that he meant exactly what he said.

    “And he beat the crown princess of the Democratic party. The guy is remarkable, resume aside.

    He beat her in the longest and most drawn out Democratic primary in decades. And this was with the help of the party big wigs from Dean on down demanding an end to the primary, the Democratic Party’s refusal to recognize the delegates from Florida and Michigan. Although they now accept half of these delegates, had this whole fiasco never happened, there is little doubt that Hillary would have won both states somewhat comfortably. Which would have meant a much closer race and possibly an even harder choice for super delegates. So although he deserves credit for beating Clinton, I am not sure his campaign was as “remarkable” as you think it was.

    Whatever comes of this, I am hoping above all that the Democratic Party ditches this ridiculous system of super delegates- or at least significantly decreases their role/power in the primaries.

    *NOTE: Although he has technically served four years in the Senate, the last two years spent campaigning and missing a large number of votes can hardly be considered time on the job.

  24. Barack Obama should choose Hillary Clinton because she’s earned it. However, I don’t think he’s going to choose her because I think people in her campaign including his wife detest her. I think Clinton helps him with the constituencies he’s extremely weak with, which are women, blue collar workers, seniors, and Latinos. I don’t know if it’s really beneficial for Clinton to be VP since she could probably do so much more being majority leader in the Senate. I think it could be beneficial for her to be VP since I believe that Obama as the weaker candidate will lose to McCain in November. Then she becomes first in line in 2012. Even if Obama were to put her on the ticket, I still think there’s a sizeable amount of angry and disillusioned Clinton supporters who will not vote for Obama and will either vote for McCain, write in Hillary Clinton, or vote for Nader.

    If Obama picks Kathleen Sebelius, governor of Kansas, I think it will enrage Hillary Clinton supporters as a slap in the face. I think Bill Richardson helps you in New Mexico but not much else. He’s not even well known in the Latino community compared to Hillary Clinton. John Edwards didn’t do anything for John Kerry in 2004 and he wouldn’t deliver anything for Obama in 2008.

    More likely choices are:

    Jim Webb – helps in Virginia and has military experience
    Ed Rendell – helps with the Clinton voters and helps in Pennsylvania
    Ted Strickland – helps with Clinton voters and helps in Ohio
    Wesley Clark – helps in Arkansas and the South, has military experience, and with Clinton voters

    But I think Obama will choose Governor Tom Kaine of Virginia because it helps him in Virginia and helps him with the Catholic vote as Kaine is Roman Catholic. I think it also helps him with blue collar workers who still see Obama as a latte liberal elitist in same way they did with John Kerry, Al Gore, Michael Dukakis, and George McGovern.

    I think McCain should choose Romney because it would help him with his conservative credentials and also on economic issues. I also believe Romney helps McCain in the Mountain West states of Nevada and Colorado where he would increase he Mormon vote. He also helps McCain in Michigan, which is where Romney’s father. McCain has an opportunity in Michigan since many Democrats in Michigan are angry with the DNC. Romney also helps in Massachusetts where he was a popular governor.

    I also thinks McCain should look at Kay Bailey Hutchinson of Texas. I think if he chose a woman, I think it would bring new historical importance to the McCain ticket. She also sures up the conservative base.

    I don’t think he needs to select Mike Huckabee because I think the South is still solid for McCain. There’s been talk about Obama picking off states in the south with higher African American turnout. However, that in it of itself cannot win states like Georgia and North Carolina. Also, many conservatives don’t trust Huckabee on economic issues.

    So my predictions are:

    Obama/Kaine
    McCain/Hutchinson

  25. Danielle says:

    totaltransformation,

    at least, spell his name correctly. he’s been in the news enough for folks to spell it correctly.

    b-a-r-a-c-k

  26. Seriously, Danielle, did that even merit a comment? Or should I ask that you capitalize the “B” in his name and begin sentences with capital letters? If you wanna play spelling and grammar police you should probably run a tighter ship yourself.

  27. JB says:

    Totaltransformation: We disagree on each and every point, but hey, that’s what makes the world go ’round!

    Except I didn’t realize Edwards ran on being black. : ) No wonder he lost!

    Koreanpower: I like some of your picks (ex. Hillary) and let’s add one just for fun: Brian Schweitzer, MT Gov. Very popular Dem in a totally red state, a real cowboy (vs. the phony currently in the White House), as straight a talker as you’ve ever heard, and I heard but cannot verify he actually speaks Arabic. Or Jon Tester from the same state. A VEEP with a buzz cut!

  28. “Except I didn’t realize Edwards ran on being black. : ) No wonder he lost!”

    My apologies, when I stated “Edwards ran on a similar message and placed third in several states” I wasn’t clear enough. What I meant was that their policies were similar, perhaps the only significant differences between them were the color of their skin and their accents. Plus Edwards had his copyrighted “two Americas” phrase. 😉

    “Totaltransformation: We disagree on each and every point, but hey, that’s what makes the world go ’round!”

    Amen to that! Viva la difference.

  29. I recall last summer/early fall saying that an Obama vs McCain race would be my dream – fully expecting it to never happen. wow.

  30. Rebecca says:

    I agree with the above-mentioned article on Sarah Palin. I would love to see her on the GOP ticket.

  31. eugenecho says:

    here’s a crazy question i was always curious about.
    had hillary won the nomination, she would have been able to select bill, her husband, as her v-p nominee. i’m pretty he’s eligible.

    but had she resigned for whatever reasons, would he have been able to serve out the term?

    @julie: why did you think that? because they are so different?

    anyone else disappointed that even the vp can’t be foreign born?

  32. “here’s a crazy question i was always curious about.
    had hillary won the nomination, she would have been able to select bill, her husband, as her v-p nominee. i’m pretty he’s eligible.

    but had she resigned for whatever reasons, would he have been able to serve out the term?”

    A fun question to ponder. Here is the relevant Constitutional language:

    22nd Amendment- “No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President, when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.”

    How is “elected to” defined? If one takes a narrow reading, elected could be view to mean exactly that, someone you cast your vote for. But do we vote for the V-P? Not really. He/She is picked by the presidential candidate who we vote on (although our decision might be influenced by their choice of V-P).

    The Washington Post tried to answer the question. Here is the link to their answer.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/19/AR2006101901572_pf.html

    “A subsequent sampling of opinion from professors of constitutional law, former White House lawyers and even a couple of federal judges reveals a simmering disagreement on whether a president who has already served two terms can be vice president. Some agree with the conclusion that the presidential term limit embedded in the Constitution bars someone such as Clinton from returning to the White House even in the No. 2 slot. Others, though, call that a misreading of the literal language of the law.”

  33. Jennifer says:

    If Hilary were president, and Bill were VP, and she died, I dont think he could serve. I think it would skip to the next in line. Here is what the 22nd amendment says…

    ” no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.”

  34. JB says:

    Yes Eugene, I am disappointed. How am I ever going to break it to Frances that she can’t grow up to be president!

  35. Ted says:

    After watching both McCain’s and Obama’s speeches on TV Tuesday night, McCain no less than NEEDS to run Alaska Gov Sarah Palin as his VP mate.

  36. But the amendment has two important clauses.

    First, no person can be elected to serve more than two terms, IF they have served two full terms.

    Second, no person who has served more than two years years as president (i.e. a V.P. who takes over for a president who resigns or is assassinated) and then been elected to a full term CANNOT be elected to the office of President again.

    Jennifer, once again the problem is the word “elect.” The clause you reference still contains the language “shall be elected.” Is the Vice-President elected? The position is somewhat ambiguous, but it seems like more of an appointment than an elected post.

    Too bad we will never know.😉 At least not this time around. Maybe 2012 will be George P. Bush with G.W. in the V.P. slot. But that is only if Iraq ends up being a success.

  37. gaius says:

    I’m a Rendell fan. Tough, savvy, practical, and can relate to the “common man.” He left an impression on Philly and PA.

  38. Yeah Rendell would be a great choice and it would guarantee Obama Pennsylvania where he’s struggling with Reagan Democrats. I think Obama inspires people who shop at Whole Foods, drive a Prius, and live in college towns. But he needs someone who can attract blue collar workers. Obama is going to do a tour through Appalachia soon, where he was clobbered by Clinton and where elections are won and lost.

  39. eugenecho says:

    @JB: sorry. i hate to burst your bubble but frances had no chance. she goes to church at quest and there’s too many incriminating things i’ve done or said that have already destroyed her chances.

    @koreanpower999: seriously, what will you write about on your blog now that hillary is out?

  40. jadanzzy says:

    I have to mention, Eugene, that I don’t understand why so many Asian-Americans find Hillary appealing. She and her husband are incredibly divisive, secretive, and manipulative. Frankly, apart from policies, the Clintons and the Bush’s are the same. Evil.

    @totaltransformation: your reason for comparing Barack to George W is ludicrous. Was W a policy wonk and a constitutional scholar? Was W known as a team player and well-respected by the democrats? Did W warn that unity and a new America was going to be tough? Did W empower the people to change the way they lived their lives? Did W stress that he won’t be their answer but that they will? No. He didn’t. Obama was and did.

    I am a fervent Obama supporter. This is not because he’s some amazing hero. It’s because he used a narrative that makes sense and resonates with people for the future of America. And most importantly, HE’S TRUSTWORTHY AND OPEN! I’m not ever going to fight and say he has so much experience. When it comes to Washington establishment, he clearly loses. That’s not the point though. Experience DOES NOT MATTER as much as WISDOM AND JUDGMENT. And when wisdom and judgment come first, experience is that wonderfully delicious icing on the cake.

    And finally, I’d like to see Bill Richardson as VP. Obama will never pick Clinton because she’s too divisive and Bill won’t release the donor list for his library, which means they have friends in VERY dark corners; fuel for the Republicans.

  41. @jadanzzy – are you implying Asian Americans are stupid for supporting for supporting Hillary Clinton because we are not aware of how evil she is? Hillary Clinton has consistently clobbered Barack Obama among Asian Americans, Hispanics, and Jews in the primaries. I guess Asian Americans, Hispanics, and Jews all support evil according to you. That sort of name calling and elitist attitude make it difficult for Hillary Clinton supporters as myself to support your candidate. Maybe there’s a chance that Asian Americans support Hillary Clinton because they actually like her and think she’s the better candidate. They might actually think she’s not evil, but actually someone they can trust because she has a track record of accomplishment. Wow, what a concept!

    @eugenecho – I don’t know what I’ll blog about. Maybe I’ll advocate for Hillary Clinton to be VP. Maybe I’ll blog and compare with other Clinton supporters and bloggers about their unpleasant interactions with Obama supporters, haha. I’ll probably just a break and gather my thoughts.

  42. gar says:

    koreanpower999>Maybe I’ll blog and compare with other Clinton supporters and bloggers about their unpleasant interactions with Obama supporters, haha.

    Hahaha.

    Let me be the first Obama supporter to say that I’ve read your blog koreanpower999 and I respect your reasons for supporting HRC. I’d like think there’s plenty of intelligent, moderate Obama supporters out there like myself who supported his candidacy not because they were jumping on the bandwagon, but because we considered both his stances on the issues and the impression we had on the kind of leadership he would bring to our country.

    As other people have mentioned, I think it’s sad that the “feud” between Obama and HRC has been hyped up by the media and rabid supporters on both sides. While I consider myself an Obama supporter, I don’t approve of sexist attacks on HRC just as I would hope HRC supporters would be strong against the racist attacks that Obama has endured.

    So the question I suppose I have now in my mind is this: Is blood between Obama and Clinton supporters really that bad that even if HRC was selected as VP, many former Clinton supporters would still refuse to vote? Seems sorta extreme to me.

  43. Thanks for the reply Jadanzzy. Mind if we pursue it further?

    “She [Hillary Clinton] and her husband are incredibly divisive, secretive, and manipulative. Frankly, apart from policies, the Clintons and the Bush’s are the same. Evil.”

    Isn’t this the kind of divisive rhetoric that Obama claims to condemn? These people are not evil, they have a different vision for this nation and different means of achieving what they consider to be the best ends for America. In a century that has seen people who proposed and followed through with sending millions of Jew to their deaths you are significantly cheapening the term. I must ask, why are people who disagree with you over political issues evil?

    “your reason for comparing Barack to George W is ludicrous.”

    Let’s examine your retorts then.

    “Was W a policy wonk and a constitutional scholar?

    No he was not, but how is this relevant to whether he can carry through on a promise of unity?

    “Was W known as a team player and well-respected by the democrats?”

    In Texas he was- and he ran on his bipartisanship in 2000. Don’t you remember the large number of Democrats in Texas who came out in support of him during the 2000 election? In addition, he won 69% of the vote in the 1998 gubernatorial election.

    “Did W warn that unity and a new America was going to be tough?”

    If you promise what you can’t deliver, what does it matter if you caveat it with, “but it will be tough”? He should be warning us that it will be all but impossible.

    “Did W empower the people to change the way they lived their lives?”

    Do you need someone else, whether it be Barack Obama or whoever, to empower you to change your life? Is he running to be president or self-help guru of America?

    “Did W stress that he won’t be their answer but that they will?”

    If he isn’t the answer why are you voting for him? Isn’t he unnecessary then? Seriously, this is all a bunch of feel good rhetoric that is about as empty as the late Molly Ivins presumed G.W. Bush’s head to be.

    But since you view Obama’s opponents as not simply misled or confused, but outright evil, how could you not attempt to find the silver lining in the Obama cloud and by into his unrealistic promises of unity.

    Although I am still curious to hear you answer a question I raised earlier. How will the man with the most left wing voting record in the Senate unite an America that is much closer to the center than he is? How will a man who attended a church that gives race pride of place in its theology and values somehow transcend race? Sadly, I doubt he will be able to do either. Regarding the former, I doubt he will give up his left of center principles. Instead he will merely grow frustrated as those of us on the right refuse to accept a left wing consensus that he will no doubt seek to impose from Washington. Regarding the latter, we’ve seen enough proof in this campaign season alone, that he hasn’t transcended race. No, instead he merely relies on his partisans to shout “racist” at those would dare disagree on either his vague policies of “change” or his less than convincing resume . Will this get any better should he be elected president?

    “Experience DOES NOT MATTER as much as WISDOM AND JUDGMENT. ”

    Rezko, Jeremiah Wright, Ayers, should I go on? While he might have knowledge, and I’ve never denied he is a smart (if not brilliant) man, his judgment and wisdom aren’t quite so impressive. Now that the general elections have begun perhaps he will field some tough questions and he won’t be able to complain to reporters that he’s answered enough questions already or pronounce how his wife (out actively campaigning for him) is off limits whenever her awkward comments cause him political trouble. We have five months to find out more about Obama, and I will admit that I hope I am wrong about him. However, at this point I see little evidence to suggest that.

  44. jadanzzy says:

    eugene i apologize fot creating a negative atmosphere. forgive me. i hope you can be a voice in something that david park and i have been dreaming about. it’s coming to fruition! did he tell you at all about it?

    @ totaltransformation and koreanpower999: in the interest of peace on eugene’s blog, i think we should carry this convo someplace else. my email is jadanzzyATyahoodotcom. if you guys email me, then i can respond to whatever was said here. thanks.

  45. I don’t see anything uncivil about this conversation. But in the interests of staying true to the original post the discussion should probably be relocated. Feel free to wander over to my blog and find my post about Obama. I could use an Obama supporter on there who doesn’t use the word “racist” to describe any opposition to Obama. In your favor you have not done so, and I thank you for that.

  46. eugenecho says:

    @jadanzzy et al:

    you guys have been civil and i don’t mind you continuing the conversation here if you so choose.

    if anything, i think it’s good that we’re held “accountable” and asked questions by others who don’t share our personal views.

  47. JB says:

    Here’s some good news for democracy:

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/obama-camp-sets-new-money-guidelines/

    “Mr. Obama is announcing today that the D.N.C. will no longer accept contributions from federal lobbyists or political action committees, which follows the rules he established for his own campaign last year.”

  48. ryanbd says:

    @jadanzzy et al: I’ve been lurking while procrastinating on my “Just War” paper due next week (makes for an interesting analysis of our current ‘war’). I vote you stay put and keep the dialogue going.

    I think the comparison between Clintons and Bushes is consistent in that they reflect the baby-boomer style of politics that a lot of Obama suporters under 40 are looking to change from. There’s a very interesting piece in the Atlantic Monthly that came out late last year and talked about why Obama was an important shift away from the polemical, divisive politics typified by BOTH W. and Billary. You can read it here:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obama

    BTW, I don’t think Obama is a saint and I think he’s got some shady things in the past (Rezko), but nothing compared to most national politicians. BTW2, has anybody else noticed that Hillary’s words around what she’s going to say this Saturday have fallen short of a full endorsement of Obama? Is this more Clinton-speak (“I did not have sexual relations with that woman.”) that will keep the door still open a crack for her candidacy? Lawyers…:)

  49. I favor Biden for Obama, but thought he should have named him a month ago to give Biden more time to do what good VP candidates do best–attack the other side. I favored Palin for McCain at the same time, though she seems to be out of the running. Romney has obvious strengths, though I wonder if religious conservatives vote for a Mormon? As someone who will be voting against McCain, I actually hope he chooses Lieberman.

    My dull predictions, however: Biden and Romney.

  50. Aaron says:

    Sorry not to answer your questions PE… I have not been following the suggested VPs. However, my fear is that the nominees will choose a VP based on attracting (undecided, or middle ground) voters in a strategic move to win the election. I would hope the candidates will choose who they think is the best candidate (morals, values, experience, strengths/weaknesses, etc.) rather than who will attract the most voters.

  51. beattieblog says:

    seems like Biden is leading the crew of potentials. I had wanted Edwards until the recent affiair revelation.

  52. Obama should select Hillary Clinton as his running mate if he wants to guarantee victory in November. The Wall Street Journal poll that came out yesterday showed that only half of Clinton voters are supporting Obama, while about a third are undecided and about a fifth are voting for McCain. Putting her on the ticket would immediately bring a large upward bump in the polls and it would create unparalleled electricy and excitement as he would have faked out everyone. It would also ensure a united convention in Denver, full of energy and optimism.

    However, I think Obama will play it safe and pick Joe Biden, ensuring that this will be a tight race until the end.

  53. All the cable news outlets are confirming that Joe Biden is the pick. It’s a pretty safe pick. The pick reminds me of Bush’s pick of Cheney. Biden just like Cheney helped with weaknesses in experience and foreign policy. Also, both are older, which would not be seeking the presidency. However, I don’t know how much it excites the public or help him electorally. But I’ll have to wait to get my text from the Obama compaign in the morning to confirm the pick.

  54. Dennis says:

    McCain needs to hit a home run with the buzz appeal for Vice-President. My suggestions would be Condi Rice or Colin Powell. He needs to stay as far away from Huckabee and Libermann as VP picks although they are good candidates for future slots in the cabinent if he’s elected. Romney is acceptable.

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One Day’s Wages

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As I soaked in this breathtaking sunrise this morning above the clouds, I felt compelled to pray for so my places in America and around the world that are experiencing such pain, heartache, injustice, and violence. At times, it feels so overwhelming but in prayer, I was reminded of these words from John 16:33. As we keep striving, working, hoping, preaching, loving, truthtelling, reconciling, repenting, forgiving, dismantling, peacemaking, Kingdom building...may we fix our eyes on Christ: “I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world.” - John 16:33 Grateful for a very full weekend of ministry and preaching in Toronto, Canada (GTA). Such a privilege to partner with @worldvisioncan @wvcollective to advocate for the most vulnerable around the world. God is so gracious. A true honor to meet and encourage local pastors, lecture at Tyndale University & Seminary (photo), and preach at Richmond Hills Community Church, Compass Point Bible Church, and New City Church. Thank you, Lord, that you use broken and imperfect people like me to speak of Your love. Today, Minhee and I dropped off our eldest child at her college. We have been thinking and praying about this day for many years. On some days, we hoped it would never come. On other days, we couldn't wait for it to come. On some days, we prayed for time to stop and other days, we prayed with anticipation. 
After an entire summer of laughing it off, it hit us...hard...this week. Seeing all of her stuff laid out on the basement floor was the catalyst to a load of emotions.

After unloading the car and taking her stuff to her new home for this year and mindful that she might never live with us again; helping sort out her stuff, saying hello to her roommates...I wasn't sure what to do or say.

A flood of thoughts rushed my mind.

Is she ready?
Have we done enough?
Have we taught her enough? 
What if this? What if that?

And so we shared what we have shared with her the moment she began to understand words: "Remember who you are. Remember WHO you belong to. Remember what you're about. God loves you so much. Please hold God's Word and His promises close and dear to your heart. We love you so much and we are so proud of you." And with that, we said goodbye. Even if she may not be thousands of miles away, this is a new chapter for her and even for us. I kept it composed. Her roommate was staring at me. I didn't want to be that father. I have street cred to uphold. Another final hug. 
And I came home.
And I wept.
Forget my street cred.
I miss her. I love her.
She will always be my little baby.

I'm no parenting guru. I just laughed as I wrote that line. No, I'm stumbling and bumbling along but I'd love to share an ephiphany I learned not that long ago. Coming to this realization was incredibly painful but simultaneously, liberating. To be honest, it was the ultimate game-changer in my understanding as a parent seeking after the heart of God.

While there are many methods, tools, philosophies, and biblical principles to parenting, there is – in my opinion – only one purpose or destination.

Our purpose as parents is to eventually…release them. Send forth. For His glory. Met a friend and fellow pastor who I haven't seen in over 20 years. In him, I saw a glimpse of my future. While only 10 years older, his kids are married and he's now a grandfather of 3. His love for his wife and family were so evident and his passion for the Gospel has not wavered. It was so good to see someone a bit older still passionately serving the Lord with such joy and faithfulness. Lord, help me to keep running the race for your Glory. Happy wife.
Happy life. - Eugenius 3:16

I still remember that time, many years ago, when Minhee was pregnant with our first child. She had left her family and friends in Korea just two years before. Her morning sickness was horrible and when she finally had an appetite, she craved her favorite Korean food from certain restaurants in her neighborhood in Seoul, Korea. I had no way of getting that food from those restaurants so I actually said, "How about a Whopper? Big Mac?" Sorry honey. Eat away. You deserve it. I don't care if it sounds mushy but sunsets are one of my love languages. Seoul, Korea was amazing but WOW...what a breathtaking welcome back sunset by Seattle. Not ready to let go of summer.

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