While I hold to “conservative” views on homosexuality & gay marriage, I support everyone having full benefits associated with civil unions. While it may not be popular to some, I think that the goverment needs to get out of the marriage business/industry, oversee civil unions for everyone, and marriage should be administered by churchees as they see appropriate. But that likely isn’t going to happen anytime sooon and the battle over gay marriage is only going to intensify. Want proof? Read this from yesterday’s Seattle Times:
A group called WhoSigned.org says it will publicize the names of people signing petitions for Referendum 71, which seeks a public vote to overturn a new expansion of Washington’s same-sex partnerships.
WhoSigned.org says it’s partnering with the gay rights group KnowThyNeighbor.org to put the names online.
In a statement Monday, WhoSigned.org says it expects people who see the names online to contact the signers for what may be uncomfortable talks about gay rights.
Sponsors of Referendum 71 have until July 25 to collect about 121,000 signatures to make the fall ballot. The referendum seeks to overturn the latest expansion of the domestic partner law, which would give partners the same state rights as married couples.
I can’t even comprehend the pain that the gay community feels but I wonder if this will only backfire on their efforts…
What do you think? (As usual, please be respectful in our dialogue)
Folks want an easy target and blame the Church or Christians for the movement against Prop 8 and other initiatives but I think they might be off base…
I think I need to chill on some of these intense topics. I’m not trying to play victim here but it’s exhausting and not pleasant to get these kind of emails from both sides. Folks are clearly passionate. While it may be hard for some to believe, I’m trying to Love God and Love People – trying really hard but apparently, failing miserably.
It’s people like you that give Christianity a very bad name. It’s an insult for you to even be asking me these questions. Rather than correspond with your ilk and try to convince you of the obvious, I am going to try to win souls for the living Christ, our lord and savior, source of all love. A love that you sadly don’t really seem to understand.
I see that there’s sadly quite a bit more “North Korea” in your mindset than San Francisco. The open-mindedness of The City has obviously been lost on you. It is truly hurtful that minorities like you who’ve so benefited from democratic open-mindedness are so stingy about extending that same generosity of thought to others unlike you. I think it’s called hypocrisy!
And this one is my favorite:
Eugene, you are a coward! I can’t even believe you are a Christian minister. You give other pastors a bad name. I’ve been reading your blog for several months now and you keep riding the fence on the issue of gay marriage. Your congregation and people in your city need you to have some courage and clearly share what the Scriptures say about homosexuality. This isn’t the time for political correctness but bold preaching. Grow a backbone!
What I need is to post funny YouTube videos from now on…and ease up on these topics.
Filed under: , prop 8, referendum 71, seattle, washington
Well, I don’t agree with your “position” on this issue, Eugene, but respect you for the grace you’ve managed to exhibit in sharing your thoughts and hosting the dialogue.
Far too often, people forget that there are real human beings behind the gay marriage “issue.”
I am one who actually agrees with you, Eugene. Cowardly fence-riding hypocrites unite!
All those people just want you to say that gay people are going to hell.
I say that it is they who are the cowards. It is easy to yell about the judgement of someone else, but it takes true character to try to love those who are different and not judge them for one aspect of their life.
Oh, and it is the hard topics that I enjoy the most, though as a leader of a congregation it definately is much more difficult for you. While everyone needs a break every once in awhile, please don’t let up on challenging people and generating passionate discussion. Christians must live within the tension of life, and in that tension bring people together around a common purpose, to love God and to love other people.
I think the “you signed” campaign will definitely backfire. It will only serve to further polarize people on both sides of the gay marriage issue. I don’t think angry phone calls from gay marriage supporters are going to convince gay marriage opponents to change their minds.
As with every difficult issue in our time, the gay marriage issue not black and white. It’s very complex, and the reasons people have for supporting or not supporting it vary widely. The more we foster true communication in a non-hostile setting, as opposed to demonizing those who don’t agree with us, the further we’ll get in finding common ground.
fence riding may be the most courageous thing to do in a debate with such extremes.
Hang in there, Eugene. For every one of these emails that you receive…remember that there are MANY more who are greatly encouraged by your vision and pastoral leadership!
I’m also a Christian minister and I completely agree that the government should get out of the business of deciding who can and who can’t get married. It’s hard for me to believe that there aren’t more Christians supporting the idea of civil unions so that the Church can then handle marriage on their own and not be seen as trying to keep people from their rights.
I also find it almost funny that your second email example thinks the courageous position is to “take a stand” for Scripture and rant and rave at everyone else. One last thought, what if some day, maybe 100 years from now, Christians will look back at this time the same way we look back at Christians who supported slavery because it was in the Bible?
Eugene,
you are appreciated!! listen to rexhamilotn saying that there are many more people out there who support what you say.
also appreciated is your need for silly youtube videos.
here is one from the great north, MN.
Shalom.
Wow. Those e-mails are something else, Eugene! A good reminder that neither side has a monopoly on meanness.
I agree with your position on the government staying out of marriage altogether. However, in light of the fact that this seems unlikely, I feel it’s best to support gay marriage. Even if homosexuality is a sin, we live in a country where sinning is not illegal so long as it does not pose a danger to society. It seems to me that those who think gay marriage should be illegal based on biblical principles would also have to support a ban on divorcee re-marriage in order to be consistent. The “sanctity of marriage” is being threatened on a lot of levels – most of them are not illegal.
For me, it’s not really a matter of condoning or supporting gay unions as much as it is a matter of living in a free society where equal rights are granted to all. I think it would be helpful if church leaders would actually stay out of the debate and let the people in their congregations decide for themselves. As you certainly know, there are much bigger issues out there for us to tackle – poverty, AIDS, human trafficking, persecution. I wish Christians were more disturbed by the idea of a baby dying from a preventable disease like malaria than by the idea of two gay guys having a wedding.
That being said, I think you’ve handled this issue with more grace and humility than just about anyone else I’ve encountered. Tone is everything, and you’ve struck a good one.
Meanness is simply stupid. But that point aside, I understand the point of the 2nd commenter you posted. Homosexuality is a sin and while we declare our love for all peoples, we can’t sit on the fence on sin. This is why Jesus died on the cross – for sinners like every one of us.
I agree with Megan. This is a complex issue. I have many reasons to support both sides. I’m for social justice/compassion/Golden Rule principle and I’m also for obeying the scriptures as I read them (ie: reserving sex and marriage for heterosexual, monogamous relationships – despite hardship/culture). Further, putting this out of the realm of just a “religious” argument, there were additional concerns to Prop 8 that made it more than just “rights” vs “religion”… I hope, in the spirit of better dialog, both camps will understand each other better and lose the meanness and slander that I’ve seen of late. It’s not all about hate.
Oh yeah.. Please don’t relegate yourself to just funny videos.. You’re blog has been a great source of articulateness, discussion and healthy challenge. Thank you for the resourcing!
Man, sorry about those emails Eugene. Though sometimes success is measured by the quality of the people you piss off. And from the fear visible in those emails you seem to have pissed off the folks that nobody ought to be following. Good for you
I know the main point of this blog post isn’t to get patted on the back but that’s what I’m gonna do because your position seems like an essential bridge between two extremes. It’s like how Obama outlined the abortion debate at Notre Dame suggesting that we don’t need to agree but we do need to use “fair-minded words.”
Take heart, I think this your approach is about as honest and watertight as it gets, not to mention more mature.
I found a really interesting parallel in this one a while back, actually. The first anabaptists in the UK rejected infant baptism as a state-based naming ceremony that made people part of the prevailing culture of their time. Perhaps a separation of civil partnership and marriage (one man, one woman, under the one true God) is needed, just as the state-reception and spiritual-family reception ceremonies were split through the work of the anabaptists.
Thanks for the pats and kind words. I wasn’t looking for them but it’s nice to get some “validation.”
But what do y’all think about that article I pasted about publicizing the names of those who sign the petition?
I agree with your assessment. It’s not a good idea. I view it as a bullying move rather than reaching out and making persuasive cases that understands the opposite side’s perspective.
I am with you Eugene. The government needs to get out of the marriage business completely. And yes, I am a pastor and for civil unions. Its not popular, and its not affirming a lifestlye, its just saying we are all Americans and nothing more. Its ridiculous the hate, esp. from pastors, that is being thrown around in what should be a civil debate. You are in my family and my prayers.
If we have to ‘define marriage’ in order to frame the argument, haven’t we already lost the battle?
Eugene, I’m with you on the fence. My perspective is somewhat unique, as much of my life involves dealing with gender issues and marriage, although not in the political sense.
Ultimately, I believe the pro-gay-marriage crowd would like the legitimization that a legal marriage-ruling provides. As a conservative Christ-follower, I know what I’m “supposed” to say/think/believe, but I cannot get down off the fence because neither blanket-acceptance nor blanket-condemnation are sides I want to be on.
Sneaky is what that was.
Hey Eugene,
I read your blog all the time. If your church were in my state, you would probably see me every sunday. I really appreciate all that you say and mostly, your humbleness.
I used to agree that homosexuality was a sin. The Bible flat out says it, right? How could I ignore something in the Bible just because I didn’t like it? Well, I didn’t. I started researching the original greek and hebrew and going back to context. You can’t scapegoat the Bible to context, as that is a dangerous pitfall, but I did find somethings that seemed very different from the NIV Bible I was reading. I suppose its the difference of inerrancy and infallibility. I am slowly trying to feel God again, but with so many people saying that being gay and christian are incompatible, its very hard. People long for community, yet for many of us, gay christians have no community. We aren’t 100% accepted in the church, or the glbt community.
I completely agree with Rachel H Evans!!!!! I don’t think its a question of whether you agree with it or not. You don’t have to agree with same sex marriage, or interracial marriage, but I don’t believe we can deny people their basic rights based on a religion that not all proclaim.
I do think that this campaign will backfire. The problem is that we are throwing stones back and forth. I completely understand why stones are being thrown, but I think it will only divide us more. Aren’t we divided enough?
I hope I didn’t flame the fire. We are all in this life together. We are human. We love. We fail. We must unite as souls in search of hope, beauty, and love. We are not as different as we think.
I find it hilarious that the same people who have been able to get married legally (the “Christians”)and who have failed at it miserably with the staggering divorce rates are so worried that homosexuals getting married will affect them…Those are the hypocrates in my opinion.
If gay people get married..it will in no way affect my marriage.
I think if there is anything that truly needs to change is that it should be harder to get divorced.
I’m athiest, but I know a bit about the Bible. There are only two places in the Bible where it says that men cannot lay with men; Leviticus and the story of Sodom and Gamorah. Leviticus also says you should not eat shelfish but “good” Christians eat lots of food that was laid down in Kosher laws as being “dirty”. So why pick out homosexuality out of all the laws laid down in this book of the Bible?
In the Sodom and Gamorah story, the problem isn’t with consentual homosexuality, it’s about the raping until death, of strangers.
It is ridiculous to equate sexual predation with homosexuality (and in fact most sexual predators are heterosexual males).
Christianity has it’s roots in Judiasm; which is a blood religion. If men have relationships with men and not with women, then the religion cannot be spread.
Christians like to pick and choose from the Bible, what laws they will obey, they also pick and choose their hate from the same book. How could a human actually truly understand the word of God? We are very close to chimps but while they can learn math and language, they can’t possibly understand the world as a human. Why would anyone be so arogant to think that they really understand what God wants? We are nowhere near the same playing level (if such a being exists).
I’m sorry to hear that you’re being called names by our brothers and sisters in Christ, Eugene… I’ve faced similar (although not nearly as heated) accusations on my blendingworship blog, and finally stopped posting…
I’m considering returning to it, because I know there are many who read it faithfully – and who found truth in what I was communicating. I don’t want my perspective to be silenced just because someone is shouting loudly at me…
Then again, I’m scared to admit that I completely agree with your side of this debate. That the gov’t should take over civil unions and provide benefits, and let the Church handle marriage (as Christians define it). [here comes the hate mail]
(And can I just say that I’m so tired of Christians fighting amongst ourselves. WE are not the enemy… But we’re distracted enough to stay out of the real fight.)
the publishing names and hoping for “uncomfortable conversations” is just plain stupid and a violation of privacy. if you say you don’t agree with gay marriage and exercise your right to disagree someone will harass you for it? and then someone who agrees with gay marriage exercises their right to vote for gay marriage and someone harasses them for it? what the crap? where is the love and compassion in this discussion?
i was so saddened by the discussion after the prob 8 vote because the black community was scapegoated and even those proud black gays who showed up to support were attacked. (the published voting reports were in fact false.) i realize that hurting people hurt people but someone has to break the cycle. i don’t know what Jesus would do if He were here. we have the Word of God as our standard but i know the Word and i know Jesus broke all kinds of “biblical law” by keeping the company he kept and healing the way He did. were those not “sacred scriptures” the religious groups accused Him of breaking? and what was His response? the two greatest laws are to Love God and love your neighbor. who is your neighbor? maybe when you expand your answer to that question, you can approach this whole discussion, and others like it with the mind of Christ.
i don’t have a heaven or hell to send anyone to and i know my own life is not 100 percent worthy of heaven because i was born into sin like everyone else and i fall short daily. all i know is i am beyond grateful for the love, grace and mercy of my Lord and i want everyone to know that same love, grace and mercy. He didn’t give restriction and neither will i.
Referendum 71 isn’t even about marriage, is it? It’s about repealing domestic partnerships. The kind of legal relationship that Eugene is supporting in this blog. Why are religious groups using religious arguments and justifications to initiate a voter referendum against domestic partnerships? (let’s face it; that’s the basis for this referendum)
And this isn’t about two guys having a wedding. Gay couples can have religious weddings anywhere, regardless of DOMA laws or constitutional bans like Prop 8. It’s about those legal rights & responsibilities that Eugene highlighted in his earlier post. A wedding is fluff. The marriage license (or in this case, the DP certificate) and what it provides eligible couples is what this is all about.
As far as whosigned.org and similar efforts… Ultimately, so what? It’s all public information. Somebody gathered that information and posted it on this website. There have been documented frauds regarding groups that collect these types of signatures. One positive thing that might come out of this is that someone might find out that they were duped into signing a petition that they don’t agree with.
Even the Yes of 8 group used signature information during the Prop 8 campaign. They tracked down businesses and individuals that donated to “No on 8″ and then mailed off letters seeking equal or greater donations or else they would initiate protests. So it’s not just gay people who track this type of information.
One of the things I most enjoy about the Covenant Church is our willingness to live within tension, to seek relationship and unity over strident positions and hard-line pronouncements. I truly believe that’s the healthiest place to be as we seek to move beyond division and rancor to understanding and learning how to live together even when we disagree. The down side is, I sometimes forget that many (most?) in the world don’t want to live in that place. They want an answer, and they want it now! They want to be right, the feelings of others be damned! Seeking the third way, the common ground, as we Covenanters usually do, makes one a target from both sides. And it takes hard work, and it takes face-to-face conversation, and it takes a willingness to see beyond initial stereotypes and theological positions, to the person behind those initial images. Which makes the internet such a difficult place to see that happen. I struggle with the idea of ‘having a voice in the arena,’ when those voices are quickly disembodied from the person who is speaking. And when every voice claims the position of expert, and every opinion, it is assumed, is of equal value as every other opinion. Never mind the men and women who have devoted their entire lives to understanding the Scriptures. . .so long as “I know a bit about the Bible” then my opinion is valid. I don’t know. . .perhaps blogging isn’t the best way for the church to carry forth its witness. I look forward to your forthcoming youtube videos.
To address the list – I do think it’s a bad idea. As we’ve seen in the news this week, terrible and tragic things can happen when political action groups single out certain individuals as embodiments of the perceived problem (referring to the doctor who was killed for performing late-term abortions). Taking a public stand on something this controversial comes with risks, and my guess is that not everyone on that list knew they would be signing up for that.
Jon – “The marriage license (or in this case, the DP certificate) and what it provides eligible couples is what this is all about.” You’re right. I certainly didn’t mean to imply that all gay couples cared about was the wedding ceremony.
Eugene,
I agree with you. I’ve gotten some of the same flak as you have regarding this issue. It does get tough when this is turned into a black and white issue, because its not. It get sticky when Christians try to impose their beliefs on people and a country that is not Christian. It is sad when a people group is alienated in the name of Christ. I think you have handled this issue with grace, humility, and a gentleness that is needed from the Christian community.
Peace to you.
I don’t know, as far as the names being put online, in a way it might expose people for what and who they are, as opposed to being able to petition without risk. I think petitioning should be a risk. If you sign a petition, you are placing your support for a particular thing, and if you are not willing to be known for that thing, then maybe you shouldn’t be signing the petition in the first place.
It is a little bit like how so many people who after the Holocaust, found out that it was a neighbor, or even their minister who gave them or family members up to the Nazi’s. In a way that information should be brought to light, but it is painful.
On the other hand, part of me thinks that it won’t be helpful to the current situation overall. It might, like others have shared above, just incite more division. There is no easy answer to it.
Dude, that sucks but that “North Korea” comment is pretty funny.
It feels to me like publishing the names is a bit of an itimidation tactic, like “if you sign this, we’re going to publicly label you a bigot”. I am not planning to sign this petition (I confess to also being on the fence), but if I were I would think twice about putting myself and my family in that position.
Any time anyone signs a petition, that signature becomes public record and is subject to scrutity. This is true for this anti-domestic partnership petition and it is true if you sign any petition supporting/opposing any subject.
If you oppose domestic partnerships and sign a public document asserting that opposition, then what do you care that someone thinks you’re a bigot (or just that others know that you disagree with them)?
Not quite sure if I embeddened this correctly. Either way, it’s a funny youtube clip and (somewhat) on topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhKa-NVWEg8.
That didn’t work too well. I’ll try once more…
@jon – so hilarious i had to post an entry just for that.
http://eugenecho.wordpress.com/2009/06/02/video-quick-sex-change-only-barrier-between-gays-marriage/
[...] Viewed Posts i am more than a stereotypegay marriage: failing both sides?10 best [korean] movies/films my top 10 wedding advicesusan boyle and the lesson we should all learn [...]
One more video before I take off for a while. Not quite as funny, but this is kind of how I feel sometimes.
I feel for you, Eugene. Even though I disagree with you on this particular topic, I’ve definitely been put in an equally uncomfortable situation due to my nuanced position on abortion (in short, that I think it’s wrong but that it’s not murder of a person)… so I get trashed by one side for supporting the killing of babies and by the other for being a heartless, oppressive misogynist.
I belonged to a Mennonite church for a long time when I was younger, and I understand how tormented a lot of people are about the issue of homosexuality in society. Our congregation ended up committing to being an ‘open community’ with regard to gays, but it was a huge struggle for quite a few people in the congregation, and that was something we had to deal with. I hope that doesn’t sound condescending at all – I really don’t mean it to be.
Anyway, thanks again, Eugene.
Cheers,
Matthew
I admire your honesty and kindness, Eugene.
Eugene, IMHO, loving others with patience, kindness, grace, truth, and care may “fail” those who want the Church to side FOR/AGAINST people and their issues; however, you, others who love God and neighbor, and I believe in a God who serves through love and not through verbal warfare and demonization. It’s our refusal to take sides that offends combined with our refusal to abandon Scripture which tells of God-with-us – so the human strategy is to attempt to bully us, shame us, harangue us, into re-entering that spectrum of law, judgment, and death. We serve a Savior who came “full of grace and truth.” The weapons of the Holy Spirit are not carnal, but they have God’s power. We need faith in God and spiritual strength coming from Godself. May you be renewed “in Christ.”
@mike: yes, i agree. that “North Korea” comment did make me laugh initially…
and then i stopped when i considered the nuclear rhetoric and the captivity of two female US journalists currently undergoing trial in NK.
I agree, this is something that the church and state should most certain breakup over…
OR, the state could do marriage counseling and take the burden away from the church. Every year governmental marriage counselors will get a review based on the longevity of marriages they’ve pre-counseled. Then again, maybe each church should do the same — the ability to marry solely based on marriage attrition, with an obvious goal of 55% or above success rate.
You might find this article interesting, regarding two UCSD students who are trying to get the state of California out of the marriage business:
http://www.sacbee.com/295/story/1723493.html
I do not know the current status on their efforts.
Eugene
Thanks for standing in the trenches trying to create good dialog.
1) As a christian trying to live out what I believe the Bible says, I think homosexuality is a sin. That is what I teach my kids and what my church believes.
2)I do not believe you can legislate morality. Regardless of the legal status of same sex marriages, homosexuality is not going to be stopped one bit whether or not Prop 8 is upheld or overturned. So, what are christians and the church really fighting to stop? Don’t tell me they’re trying to stop sinful activity, because they’re not going to stop the lifestyle. We can’t even get those inside the church living in concert with their own christian beliefs (lying, cheating, monogamy, …). Why are they trying to project christian beliefs and lifestyle on those who do not embrace christianity? Don’t you think the church should be focusing their energy and resources (time, money, talents, etc…) on those inside the church, fulfilling the great commission, and tending to widows/orphans.
3) The institution of marriage is NOT unique to the Christian church. People get married at the court house or outside the church all the time. Some countries/cultures even allow polygamy (its much larger than just the fundamentalist mormon church). Therefore, I think the church and christians should be careful about how far they extend their religious beliefs into the public sector lest they conflict with other religions, cultures or lifestyles. Why do christians get to define marriage? What if christianity is the minority and the majority believe that heterosexual marriages should not be allowed? I suspect that the churches and christians would offer the same rhetoric that the No on 8 group is using. By they way, No on 8 advocates can NOT really claim the high morale ground on EQUALITY unless they also SUPPORT polgamy. Otherwise, they are not ADVOCATING EQUALITY FOR ALL, just equality for themselves and the other minorities relgions/cultures that embrace polgamy will just have to deal with “discrimination” on their own. That seems hypocritical to me, doesn’t it?
4) I believe prostitution is a sin, but Nevada has made it legal in many counties (probably all but Clark County). So, are christian and the church going to spend their resources to fight against this or have they realized that there are more important things (fulfilling the great commission, attending to the need of widows and orpans, etc) to be spending their resources on. Likewise, I think the church and christians should spend their resources on other things than fighting to stop same sex marriages. If the christians find prostitution so reprehensible, why do so many still go to Nevada and spend their tourism money (Vegas, Laughlin, going to the river, etc…) in that state?
5) Someone above mentioned slavery during biblical times. That’s a great example. The Bible speaks about submitting one to another and then goes on to discuss husband/wife, owner/slave, and parent/child relationships. Slavery was a cultural practice. I personally think it is wrong as I suspect most people do. But Christ did not spend his resources fighting social injustice at every turn he took. He was focused on the things of the kingdom. So to answer the question, WWJD? I do NOT think he would be spending His resources fighting for prop 8. One might argue that Jesus would agree with it, He might even vote for it, but I do NOT believe he would waste his resources conducting a campaign to the degree the church and christians are currently doing.
6) Let me put this another way. One of satans best tactics is not to entice Christians into sin, but to get them distracted by diverting their resources to causes/issues other than the primary one we’re still here to fulfill. I believe that this is one such issue that has caused many churches and many christians to lose their focus.
So, I believe what I believe, I’ll teach my kids this way, and I’ll attend a church that shares my beliefs. However, when I step outside my home or church, I believe we need to embrace a relgious and culturally pluralistic society. Therefore, we should then go ahead and allow same sex marriages. Even allow room for polygamy (but I think the federal law stepped into this territory, though it shouldn’t have). I believe you should be 18 to be married. If anything, I would fight to remove parental consent for minors, but that goes into a whole another debate.
Thoughtful debate welcome. Name calling and hate will be ignored…
Prop 8 wasn’t targeted at polygamy. It was targeted at a population of Californians who had the legal right to marry, but now have had that legal ability stripped away from them narrowly by popular vote. I.E., Gay couples.
I guess I’ve missed where polygamists and others supporting plural marriage have been seeking to obtain legal marriages. Usually instead I see evidence of polygamists using spiritual marriages to “bleed the beast” (i.e., abuse the public welfare system) by taking advantage of their status as legally single moms with kids. If those who favor plural marriage want to seek legal recognition of their marriages, I’m all in favor of them making their case.
Then again, this thread is more about Washington State’s Referendum 71, which has nothing to do with marriage and everything to do with the state’s domestic partnership law and the legal rights & responsibilities offered to eligible couples.
@Mike,
My thoughts on your #5: I would say that Jesus spent much of his time and effort fighting social injustice. His focus on things of the Kingdom meant that he would fight social injustice. His time spent with the poor, the prostitutes, tax collectors, who he chose for disciples, his teachings were often political as well as spiritual, this all was Jesus speaking and acting against the social and political norms of his day.
I agree that he didn’t do things like how we do it today however, supporting or condemning specific propositions or laws. He didn’t challenge the system from within the system, the government of his day wouldn’t have allowed it if he had tried. He taught and worked among the people, not among the lawgivers (except to show their hypocrisy). So would Jesus support prop 8, probably not, he would be teaching people in their communities about a better way to live, and often showing hypocrisy and bigotry where it is present.
So, I agree with your conclusion, but Jesus most definately was a social activist, though maybe not like any the world had seen before. To be like Jesus is to speak out against injustice, but Jesus did it differently than how the world does it. He fought injustice by influencing and changing people’s hearts and minds at the grassroots level.
hang in there, Eugene. I have been following your blog for some time now and continually find it a source of encouragement for the pitfalls of living, working and breathing in my own multicultural faith community. the hard conversations are worth having. navigating sensitively between extremes is a gift i think you have. while i have a more “liberal” position on gay marriage, i appreciated your clarity and honestly. that, too, is a gift. keep it up!
Interesting. Rhode Island’s senate just passed a bill that would recognize domestic partnerships, but only after the death of one of those partners. It will be interesting to see if the bill passes. Read about it here: http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2009/06/03/11844.
Interesting quote from a linked article:
“Mark S. Goldberg told a Senate committee about his months-long battle last fall to persuade state authorities to release to him the body of his partner of 17 years, Ron Hanby, so he could grant Hanby’s wish for cremation — only to have that request rejected too because ‘we were not legally married or blood relatives.’
“Goldberg said he tried to show the police and the state medical examiner’s office ‘our wills, living wills, power of attorney and marriage certificate’ from Connecticut, but ‘no one was willing to see these documents.’
“He said he was told the medical examiner’s office was required to conduct a two-week search for next of kin, but the medical examiner’s office waited a full week before placing the required ad in a newspaper. And then when no one responded, he said, they ‘waited another week’ to notify another state agency of an unclaimed body.”
I think failing on both sides may be the most Christ-like spot to be on this issue, though it’s tough
. Thanks for your thoughts and insights Eugene!
I have a gay brother-in-law, and friends who are gay. Without any question, I believe the Bible’s teaching on homosexuality is crystal clear. It is a sin, just like lying, fornicating, or covetousness. I believe Christ accepts us as we are when we come to Him, but empowers us to transform our lives into His image.
That said, I have never – ever – understood why the government is involved in the marriage business. But for the money generated by taxes on the licenses, and court fees generated by the ensuing divorces, I see no reason for its involvement at all.
This should be a church issue, and a church issue alone. The sovereign people of the sovereign state of Washington have every right to decide how “marriage” benefits are to be apportioned. Those who don’t like the outcome can put the issue back on the ballot and engage in thoughtful debate in an effort to persuade the voters.
If churches were calling referendum registrants for a pro-gay referendum directly and challenging them in their homes, it’d be considered a hate crime. This strategy will surely backfire.
Which church? My church affirms gay families and supports marriages for both het and gay couples.
And Washington doesn’t have “marriage” benefits or marriage equality for gay couples. It has a statewide domestic partnership law for gay couples. The kind of thing that everyone says they support. Maybe people only support civil unions and not domestic partnerships…
@Joe: Why would it be considered a hate crime?
…..In your writings up top I find this commenting correct & percise on Our Christian Culture today~and its back-lashings of truth….”The Loving God, and Loving Others” is proven to be failing miserably in all aspects of the church, and their defining direction as how people relationally are towards one another….Example: If it does not go my way perse’….it goes no way…..their is no proven method of correctness in my opinion of the REAL CHRISTIAN proven and acceptable life…by means of unconditional acceptions~compassion~reconsilational processes by real authentic and caring leadership…nothing. Its almost become a joke. So Why expect an appointed matter such as this be any different than the rest of the failed efforts set before us….WE ARE doing the mistakes of judgements to ourselves~and no one taking anitiative of “the help offers” to calm the storms of prudences…..sad. Gays/Lesbians/Married/Divorced…all in foreboding effortless divides never to adjust to eachother anyways…same old…..”Rahab”
I have HAD IT. I refuse to comply with our government in ANY way until my loved ones and I are EQUAL. Taxes? Jury Duty? F-that. Not until I am treated with the SAME respect and given the SAME civil law access that others have.
We need to STOP acting UN-equal. NOW.
Here’s my personal message for the White House:
http://gaytaxprotest.wordpress.com/2009/06/09/connect-the-dots-revised-for-obama/
Amen….what’s your point….???